Donald Trump's former national security adviser John Bolton believes that Donald Trump's policy is disastrous on many issues and claims that the US president has simply lost touch with reality.
John Bolton was President Trump's national security adviser in 2018-2019. DW's US bureau chief Ines Paul spoke with him.
John Bolton: "The threats we face around the world are threats to the West as a whole. "In the coming decades, they will come primarily from China and the emerging China-Russia axis, so there are going to be difficult times for both Europeans and many people in America," Bolton said. (The interview was conducted before Trump's meeting with his Ukrainian counterpart Volodymyr Zelensky.)
A dramatic shift in American policy
DW: Many fear that a new friendship is being forged between China, Russia and the United States. And they could agree not to pick on each other, but to each be able to do what they want - against the rest of the world. What do you think about that?
John Bolton: This concept is beyond Trump's capabilities. I think he wants to make the biggest trade deal in history with China. This is obviously a dramatic change in American policy, and in my opinion, it is a catastrophic mistake.
DW: Does Trump understand how dangerous Vladimir Putin is?
John Bolton: No, I don't think so. He thinks he is friends with Putin. Trump has said more than once that if he has good relations with the head of another country, then the US relations with that country will be good. I would not say that personal relations are completely unimportant, even in international politics, but they are not decisive - especially when it comes to such a cold-blooded person as Putin.
DW: There have also been major changes in the US attitude towards Ukraine. What does this mean for Ukraine, and for Europe?
A Tragic Mistake
John Bolton: The shift in support for Russia, which claims that talks about Ukraine joining NATO are the cause of the war, is so far removed from reality that it is difficult to understand how Trump can be brought back to the realm of facts.
From a historical perspective, this shows how tragic it was that when George W. Bush proposed in 2008 that Ukraine and Georgia be quickly admitted to NATO, Germany, France and other countries rejected this proposal. Finland and Sweden were admitted quickly because they understand that the guarantee of real security in Europe is being part of the Alliance. I think the same would be true for Ukraine.
In one of his first statements, Friedrich Merz (the most likely next German Chancellor – ed.) said that he gradually wants to achieve independence for Germany and Europe from the US in the security sphere. With all due respect to him, I think this is a mistake. I understand that what Trump is doing is very detrimental – there is no dispute. But the real question is whether we will take care of the West as a whole or of the European Union. If the EU is cut off from the US, it will be much more vulnerable to China and Russia than together with the US.
DW: But isn't Donald Trump pushing Merz and other European leaders to go down exactly this path?
Europe's defense budget must be increased
John Bolton: I think this should become an additional incentive to allocate more money for defense. For decades, Americans like me have been telling Germany and other EU countries very clearly and firmly that they need to spend more on defense. But we haven't gotten any answers. And now Donald Trump comes along, hits Europe on the head, and Europe wakes up and says - maybe it's worth spending more on defense?
DW: And can Europe rely on the United States as it used to?
John Bolton: I think there are a lot of people in the United States - in Congress and in the Trump administration - who won't talk about it publicly, but they know that NATO is a very successful alliance and it would be foolish to abandon it. Unfortunately, Trump himself is not one of those people. Simply put - right now, because of what Trump is doing with regard to Ukraine, we are concluding that the worst is going to happen and that this cannot be fixed. If this path is taken, it will be very difficult to turn back.
Therefore, I am not proposing an absolutely clear line of conduct, because we are in uncharted territory. But I think it would be wrong to say that Europeans will never be able to rely on the United States again. The overwhelming majority of our citizens do not think so.
There is opposition to Trump
DW: Where is the opposition to Trump?
John Bolton: It's coming, the signs of it are there. I wish there were more. I live in reality, but I think it's coming in a whole range of directions. The vote at the UN with Russia and North Korea, and a lot of other things that are happening now, mean that even in the Republican Party, even though most of its representatives in Congress are intimidated, more and more people are speaking out. There's a lot more to come, but there are already the first signs that it's finally happening.