After the talks in Saudi Arabia, US President Donald Trump made serious accusations against Ukraine - he said that it should never have allowed this war, but should have made a deal. Was this possible, in your opinion, in 2021-2022?
Rüdiger von Fritsch: We are seeing a very ugly shift of blame - as if Ukraine should be to blame for being a victim of brutal aggression. With some statements from Washington, one has the feeling that they are listening to the ventriloquist Putin's puppet.
The Russian narrative has been adopted in its entirety and the old lies are being repeated in a new voice, and this could have serious and dire consequences. Because over the years, the Russian side has never tired of acting according to the old motto: "If I say something long enough, for example, that the earth is flat, someone will say - let's see, maybe it's true". This is exactly what is happening now with the statements from Washington to the detriment of Ukraine.
"Talks that arouse great concern"
Three years after the start of the war, the foreign ministers of the United States and Russia agreed in Riyadh to revive diplomatic relations. What signal is this?
Rüdiger von Fritsch: It is fundamentally right to hold talks. It would also be right to end this terrible war through diplomatic channels. However, Russia has so far refused to participate in a real dialogue - with every signal of readiness for negotiations, they had to be conducted exclusively on Russia's terms.
After the talks in Riyadh, the impression is that this is not a real dialogue with honest intentions, which would allow Ukraine to determine its future sovereignly. That is why the talks are causing great concern.
Both US Defense Secretary Hegsett and President Trump said before the talks that Ukraine's admission to NATO is not realistic and that Ukraine must give up territories. Is this pure realism or a specific approach to the negotiations?
Rüdiger von Fritsch: It is amazing how their own possible compromises are put on the table even before the negotiations begin, and knowing the Russian way of conducting negotiations. Now the Russian side will say: "Interesting, thank you very much, we will accept this, and here are our other demands". In other words, this apparent concession is essentially a preliminary extreme weakening of its own position.
At the moment, there is no signal that the US will try to push Russia towards something and that it is ready to use the appropriate diplomatic, economic, financial and other means for this purpose. To a much greater extent, the impression is that pressure is being exerted exclusively on Ukraine, and in various forms. As if this conflict is somehow indifferent to the new US administration or it weighs on it and it wants to get rid of it.
Under the dollar sign
What role do economic considerations play in this regard?
Rüdiger von Fritsch: It is assumed that it is very large - the US seems to be increasingly guided by its own economic considerations. It should be noted that at the negotiations in Riyadh, both delegations included representatives of economic interests - such as Kirill Dmitriev, who is the general director of the Russian Direct Investment Fund. He will not negotiate an end to the conflict, but he could offer the American side very attractive economic opportunities.
And Trump's new special envoy Steve Witkoff is probably advising the American president on how to defend economic interests in foreign policy. If this is the main emphasis, then Russia has clearly managed to paint dollars on the wall that can excite Trump and for which he is ready to abandon a secure and free future for Ukraine.
There is information that the United States has given Ukraine an extensive catalog of demands with economic components. Is this further evidence that the US is currently looking at the war and its relations with Ukraine primarily in economic terms?
Rüdiger von Fritsch: The US president has made it clear that he expects Ukraine to provide the US with broad access to its valuable raw materials. If this is the condition under which the US will guarantee Ukraine's free and secure future, then this is actually a demand for reparations for the support we, the West, the US have provided to Ukraine against the brutal aggression that threatens our freedom and security.
"Russia did not withdraw its demands"
After the meeting, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said that the two sides had not only listened to each other, but also heard each other. What is your analysis of this statement as an expert on Russian foreign policy and Lavrov himself?
Rüdiger von Fritsch: This can be interpreted as "Finally, someone is responding to our demands". It is important to note here that since the beginning of the war, Russia has not in the least backed down from the ultimatums formulated in writing by Vladimir Putin to the West before the invasion in December 2021. They remain on the table.
If Lavrov is speaking in this way, then this may be evidence of Russia's feeling that the United States is ready to respond to these very demands - demands that not only determine the freedom, security and future of Ukraine, but also affect the security of Europe.
The American president said that he believes that Putin also wants an end to the war and peace. This statement of his is treasonous and speaks of a completely wrong assessment of Russian thinking and behavior. Putin would say: "Of course I want it, but only on my terms". That is exactly what is happening now. It would be fatal for Washington, which has ample expertise on Russia and war, to make such misjudgments about its partners.
And what does all this mean for Europeans?
Rüdiger von Fritsch: Over the past four years, Europeans have failed to learn from the two major turning points, namely Russia's aggressive war and Trump's re-election. This required the development of a common foreign policy and joint efforts in the field of security and defense. If Europeans unite now, on the one hand it will be too late. On the other hand, however, this is the right way to try to achieve community and determination under the enormous pressure of events.
Now we must move forward on this issue. In Germany, this will be one of the major tasks of the new government - to contribute to Europe's capacity to act in terms of security and foreign policy. And here we must think about the interests of all 27 EU member states. Also to prevent Putin in the future, as a consequence of Trump's policy, from making demands on individual countries or on all of us and to whom, according to Trump's logic, it is best to give in immediately, so as not to become victims of aggression.
Author: Eckart Aretz (ARD)