Interview with the chairman of the Committee on Energy and deputy from GERB Delyan Dobrev in front of "Focus"
Mr. Dobrev, what is happening in the field of politics? We see how in recent weeks many interesting things have surfaced: the scandal with customs, the interrogation of Asen Vasilev, now forged documents by Lena Borislavova. Atanas Rusev from the association "Let's preserve Coral" announced after a post by Kiril Petkov on Facebook that he would condemn him. Nikola Minchev from "We continue the change” was involved in the whole scheme and denied what was going on. And all this from your until recently partners in the so-called "assemblage”, coalition, whatever you call it. Did you suspect such a thing?
What we see is absurd. People who called themselves honest and honorable, in fact, it turns out that they were engaged in smuggling, patronage, falsification of documents… This is particularly impudence – to sign 20 people in a general assembly or management board, and such were not held at all, and these people do not know, this is extremely impudent. And the tracks are everywhere. Nikola Minchev denied that he was a participant in this, but we did not hear such a denial from Lena Borislavova. The good thing is that as far as I understand there has been a pre-trial proceeding since last year, so I hope the truth will come out.
Yes, data is currently being awaited from the prosecutor's office. And do you remember how Kiril Petkov came out with the poster "I am Kiril Petkov and I'm not afraid"? Now everything that comes out is "DANCE chip“. Is there any reason for Kiril Petkov to worry?
I don't know what "DANCE chip" means. whereas the people whose forged signatures appear on these documents say that their signatures are forged. They never signed, never participated in such meetings, ie. we have documents, no matter what Kiril Petkov is talking about. But here the judicial system will judge who is guilty and who is not guilty. What we as politicians can say is that nothing that "The Change" claimed, that they are honest and honorable, that they are the best in this country, turns out to be true. We have witnessed absurdities.
Why are all these scandals coming out right now, including the one with Asen Vassilev and the customs and the commission?
I hope this is a coincidence, because in my opinion, in any such case, it should be made public immediately. And it seems to me that if these scandals had exploded during the 9-month administration, it might not have lasted 9 months. We already had constant arguments in this administration because, for example, we and DPS all the time insisted on lifting the derogation, while the "Change” they protected her. Remember, I have said more than once that Denkov ran with his resignation in his pocket, and at the same time, Peevski, as well as the entire DPS group, and Borisov and the GERB group, every time the abolition of the derogation was proposed, we supported it, but our votes were not enough and therefore it was delayed by a year.
And you see in this one year we made exact calculations: Russia received 6 billion dollars. On the one hand, they talk about "Turkish Stream", where Russia pays Bulgaria, and on the other hand, they very helpfully keep silent about the fact that they were buying Russian oil all the time, where Bulgaria pays Russia, and thus financed the war. Just for comparison, in the last year of the "Borisov" Cabinet we have bought 14 million barrels of Russian oil, and on average during the years of management of the "Change" we bought 42 million barrels each.
Exactly three times as much Russian oil was bought during the administration of the "Change” together with "Democratic Bulgaria”. But their anti-European, their anti-Atlantic position can be seen not only in this. Take, for example, the seventh and eighth units of the Kozloduy NPP. – there "For“ the DPS and GERB groups voted, Boyko Borisov and Delyan Peevski introduced. From "The Change” only three MPs voted "For“ the project, for its development, for "Westinghouse“. And when it was chosen…
Yes, but they had problems with the companies after that.
Subsequently, they also voted against the companies. I.e. many of the decisions in the National Assembly were made despite the "Change” and after enormous efforts on our part. The only ones with a consistent position, a consistent policy regarding these projects are Borisov and Peevski. These are the facts and anyone can check them, because there are documents about this in the National Assembly.
You said Peevski – this leads me to another question: I listened to your interview, you said that you had meetings with Asen Vasilev and Delyan Peevski.
Yes, Denkov was also present at some meetings, some of the meetings were in Borisov's office. Their biggest problem was this derogation and all the time they were making us change our position. But I am proud that both GERB and DPS always voted to remove the derogation, and that was the right decision. Here, since January 1, we no longer buy a single barrel of Russian oil, not a single one. Not 42 million barrels, but zero barrels. And you see, for 4-5 months now, they haven't run out of fuel, as Denkov scared us, nor have these fuels jumped by 2-3 BGN, nor have thousands of workers at "Lukoil Neftohim Burgas” been released.
I.e. a question now for those from "Change", especially for Denkov and Asen Vassilev, is why they kept "Lukoil" for more than a year. and the interests of "Lukoil”. Here is another interesting example that we can give, that at the beginning of 2023 we adopted the Law on compensation of motor fuels, the one leva in question, which "Lukoil” he had to give it to the Fund and the Fund should give it back to the people. This law was passed in January, they did not implement it for a whole year. In November, we obliged them by changing the law to start implementing it, and they had to do one simple thing – send one letter to the European Commission and do not send a letter for 10 months. I have filed a report on this as well and I hope that the competent authorities will come to the end on this topic as well. But between February and December, hundreds of millions in compensation accrued that were not collected.
Only for the month of December "Lukoil” they paid, because then the law came into force, then they implemented it, in just one month "Lukoil” they paid nearly 100 million. And the amount with January February, some residual quantities that are being processed from last year's supplies, is over 100 million. And these funds are standing, they have not yet been returned to the Bulgarian users. But if they had fulfilled the law, the levche in question would have been there as compensations for the people. Now the money is standing and I don't know why the Council of Ministers, neither the regular cabinet of "Change", nor the current one, does not make a decision to return it to the people, because the money has already been collected, "Lukoil” they paid them. Yes, only for one month, but for this month – 100 million. I.e. compensations of BGN 1 per liter of fuel can be given for one month.
Okay, and I'm bringing you back to these meetings again, because I find them very interesting. What exactly happened to them? If my memory serves me right, they wanted you to withdraw your offers.
Yes, at the meetings they begged us, even threatened us – Denkov threatened to resign if we did not support the abolition of the derogation.
Was it about the derogation then?
Again about the derogation. In other meetings, it was about changes to the Energy Act, which they saw in a certain way. At other meetings, they wanted us not to choose a builder for blocks 7 and 8 and thus block the process and development of the project. And this project is extremely important for Bulgaria, because with units 7 and 8 we are moving in such a schedule that these will be the first AR1000 in Bulgaria, the first units with the most modern technology in the world, from which Bulgaria will win, and it will win not only that 30% of the invested funds will remain in Bulgaria, but also because Bulgaria will develop capacity and be able to participate in the construction of other similar projects in Europe. For example, the factory for the medium modules will most likely be in Bulgaria. "Westinghouse“ have already signed more than 20 strategic partnerships with companies from Bulgaria, which will be used not only for our project, but also for those abroad.
Okay, so we understand that this is their style of communication with you then, because there was a lot of turbulence during the rotation negotiations as well?
They say one thing, do another. You see that to the people, to the public, they are honest, they are honorable, they don't deal with canals. Then we see the poodles carrying their tutus. We see how signatures of famous people in Bulgaria are forged by hand. After all, these are not random people, people who will not shut up when they see that their signatures are forged. And I, as far as I read from one of the victims, he says that companies can actually be stolen with the same success in Bulgaria.
Really?
You forge the manager's signature, make a fake power of attorney and replace him with this manager or this owner registered in the Commercial Register.
Obviously. Okay, and against this background, where will all this lead? Seeing these things now, do you allow a possible future government with the PP-DB after the elections?
In my opinion, we need to see what support each of the parties will receive in the elections. Before that, whatever we say is frivolous.
It's pure speculation, yes.
Yes. But I hope they will lose a significant portion of their support while we increase our support. And in the past, there were times when GERB ruled with about 90 deputies, so if we have 90 deputies, why not form a cabinet? This is a personal opinion, of course, but GERB can form a cabinet themselves. What is the logic of "We continue the change“ with 30 deputies in this parliament, because they, "Democratic Bulgaria”, had only two or three ministers, i.e. all others were from "Continuing the change“, and "Continuing the change“ they had 30 deputies. I.e. they with 30 MPs ruled for nine months and you see how far we have come – there is no PVU, no funds from the European Union, nothing. Our small economy, which can barely manage without these funds from the outside, is crumbling. They take out loans, spend the loans and that's it.
And how do you think people will react to all this, looking at it from the side?
Well, I hope they get outraged and if they were hesitant to vote, or if they previously voted for "Continuing the change", now they see the truth, now they see what these people are. Because politicians should not be listened to in principle even, not only from "We continue the change"; – one should not so much listen to what they say, but watch what they do. And I told you again – in the parliament they voted against removing the derogation, they voted against the development of units 7 and 8 of the "Kozloduy" NPP, against the choice of a builder, against the choice of technology. That's it, that's their actions.
Okay, now let's move more to your field, namely – energy. We witnessed protests by miners and energy workers last week. They asked for a postponement of the liberalization of the electricity market for domestic consumers until 2029. But against this background also stands the payment under the Recovery and Resilience Plan.
In fact, what we did together with DPS – even in this case, the idea was first shared by the colleagues from the DPS, is to provide funds for the reclamation of Mini "Maritsa-East". We voted in the National Assembly 250 million budget for the next four years, i.e. 1 billion. And here I open a bracket and say that if "We continue the change“ had not drained the money of these companies in the Mariska Basin, we did not need to make such a decision, because there was BGN 1 billion in the TPP, which if they had turned it into capital, the companies in the region would have had the funds they needed. And regarding liberalization – these are excuses that postponing liberalization will slow down funds.
Actually, this, the second tranche, if you remember, was supposed to come last November. It is now the end of April and there is no tranche. And postponing liberalization is not postponing the deadline for the market to be liberalized – it remains December 31, 2025. The postponement is in respect of an intermediate target – liberalization of the wholesale market, which moves from July 1 this year to July 1 next year, i.e. we move the intermediate goal, but the final goal as a deadline and as a date remains the same and this should not be a problem for the European Commission if it is well communicated by our rulers.
Yes, but yesterday the former Deputy Prime Minister Atanas Pekanov warned that if we enter the next payment at all, it will be half, and this particularly affects the delay with liberalization.
I say again that the ultimate goal of this liberalization is for everyone to buy electricity from the free market. This end goal remains December 31, 2025. It has not been changed. This is the goal that the European Commission is interested in. I have a lot of respect for Mr. Pekanov, but in this case I don't think he has gotten to know the details well enough in this specific area. The liberalization of the wholesale market is not the liberalization of the household. This does not mean that people will buy electricity from the free market at any other prices. She says that the producers will sell into this free market and then contribute to the fund, which will be paid out of the ERPs so that people's bills stay the same.
I.e. postponing this intermediate goal does not mean postponing liberalization as a whole. And I say again, I am convinced that the Commission will not have a problem with this.
Okay, and since we are entering the final minutes of our conversation, let me bring you back to the topic of "Lukoil”. What is happening with the sale of the refinery, any idea?
I have no idea. I was puzzled as to how Kiril Petkov and Asen Vasilev are going around and selling the refinery, given that it is privately owned. The state has only one share – the so-called gold stock, probably to make it sound better to people.
Yes, maybe.
But this golden share, it gives almost no rights to the state, in fact none to participate in the management or to have any control over the company. So I have no more information. It seems to me that there was something dubious there too, because you are the representatives of the finance minister and an MP to sell your private company?
It is very doubtful what price exactly "Lukoil Neftohim" is being sold for, because it is speculated to be very high.
In any case, these people are not owners, they cannot sell.
Fact.
Tomorrow they will decide to sell your apartment or someone's business.
And is there a "Lukoil" option? to be sold piecemeal in the future?
I don't think so. The refinery itself as a business I don't think can be broken up. Rather, they have separate companies. For example, gas stations – they are run downstream by, say, a separate company that has nothing to do with the company that refines the products. There is a third company, which is a trader and delivers the oil to the refinery. I.e. the individual companies, if the owner decides, can be sold to different buyers or some sold and others – no, but again, it's their decision.